Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is so disheartening to speak after people who sing for supper like the one who just left this podium – a person who sings for supper and who must be signed by Mabala Noise for obvious reasons and be one of the top acts in the Saxonwold Shibeen. [Interjections.]

The reason why Africa is referred to as a dark continent is because we have postcolonial disasters, imposters, thugs, criminals who by coincidence, accident or by design find themselves occupying the highest political office in their land. These include Obiang Mbasogo of Equatorial Guinea, Paul Biya of Cameroon, Blaise Compaoré of Burkina Faso, General Sani Abacha of Nigeria, José Eduardo dos Santos of Angola, Idi Amin Dada of Uganda, Mobutu Sese Seko of a country he name Zaire, and unfortunately, Mr Jacob Zuma of a country he will soon name Gupta-land.

Some of the common features or traits of these people that destroy the postcolonial state are that they seek to enrich their families, they seek to undermine the rule of law, they have no regard of the Constitution, and they prosecute and persecute political opponents, including opponents of the political parties they come from. [Interjections.] They fight in that particular format. When everything else has failed, they kill. They assassinate their opponents.

That is what we are faced with here in South Africa – a political postcolonial disaster called Mr Jacob Zuma. [Interjections.] That is why we, as the EFF, stand to say that we must act in unison at every opportunity that arises, to get rid of such postcolonial disasters.

We think that there is a technical mistake or blunder in the manner in which the motion has been put forward. We believe that the liberation movement should have been convicted by its own conscience, to act against a Mr Jacob Zuma when he has abdicated his responsibility as the leader of our country and gave it to a family. [Interjections.]

It is a matter of fact. It is a common cause that some of the Ministers who serve in Cabinet here were appointed by the instruction of the Gupta family. Minister Zwane was appointed by the Guptas. [Interjections.] They worked with him in the Free State. That is why he went with them immediately after appointment, to negotiate a deal in Switzerland. Mr Van Rooyen was appointed by the Gupta family. That is why they took him through a corruption induction for seven days and seven nights, prior to his appointment. [Interjections.]

That is what we are dealing with and then you stand here and say we must still defend a President who has been found by the Constitutional Court to have failed to uphold, defend and protect the Constitution. [Interjections.]

What are we dealing with here? We are calling upon you to get your own platforms. [Interjections.] You might win the vote today because you must vote according to what Gwede Mantashe said, but create your own platforms to remove the postcolonial disaster that is facing South Africa. Before you know it, he would have captured everything. [Interjections.] After he has dealt with everyone else, he is going to arrest all of you. He is going to lock you up. He is going to kill you. [Interjections.]

That is the reality of the situation. He knows that he has nothing to lose now. He knows that if he does not have control of political power, he is going to prison. [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] We are going to bring Jacob Zuma down, whether it is through political action or through … [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]… Jacob Zuma is going to fall. Thank you very much. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP: Hon Deputy Speaker, Rule 85(2) says that if a member wants to bring any thing to the House, it must be substantiated. So, hon Shivambu makes serious allegations about the appointments of Ministers. [Interjections.] We know that these matters are in the report that is still to be further investigated by the commission of inquiry. So, he must substantiate what he was saying, with regard to the Ministers. [Interjections.]

The other issue that he raised is that the President has noting to lose, so, right now, he will be able to kill his opponents. That is unparliamentary and he must substantiate that as well. Thank you.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I wish to point it out to you and perhaps the Deputy Chief Whip, if she was not aware, that this actually is a substantive motion and it is on the Order Paper as such. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me point out to you that Rule 1 provides that a substantive motion with reference to a member or holder of an office specified in Rule 88 means a self-contained proposal in terms of Rule 85 and Rule 88 for separate consideration by the House, relating to any charge against that member or office bearer. Rule 85 and 88 require that a member who wishes to bring any improper, unethical conduct on the part of a member or specified office bearer to the attention of the House, may do so by way of a separate motion, comprising a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge that, in the opinion of the Speaker, prima facie warrants consideration by the House.

Hon members, a motion of no confidence, in terms of section 102 of the Constitution, is not a substantive motion, as defined and provided for in the Rules. It does not require a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge, but may be brought on political grounds. A motion in terms of section 89 of the Constitution, on the other hand, is a substantive motion, since it must comprise a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge as provided for in section 89(1).

Hon members, therefore, the unparliamentary reference that hon Shivambu referred to is incorrect and therefore, falls foul of the Rules, and we suggest that he withdraws that. [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me assure you that I am not going to withdraw the truth here. It is not going to happen. It is never going to happen. I am not going to withdraw the truth that the Gupta family, working with Jacob Zuma, has appointed Zwane and Van Rooyen. It is a matter of fact. [Interjections.] I cannot withdraw that reality and it is a reality that we are living under a growing dictatorship of Jacob Zuma, who seeks to enrich himself and his family. It is a fact. There is no need to withdraw that. I will never withdraw. It will never happen.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you further said and I heard you said that the President is going to kill you. That is imputing a motive to a Member of Parliament. You have to withdraw that. [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I repeat that all dictators, after they steal government money, enrich their families, fight against their opponents, their last option is to kill their opponents. As a matter of fact, that is where it is going. What kind of a President charges his own Ministers through wrong procedures. That is where he is going. Jacob Zuma is going to kill all of you who think that you are on his side now. You are going to vote for him today, but in the future, he is going to kill all of you. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are repeating this, despite a request from the presiding officer not to do so. I regard this as a serious violation and I will refer this for appropriate dealing with in the House.

Mr F MOKOENA: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: We cannot curtail debate in this House through these spurious things that you are naming here. Firstly, we have a right to debate in this House. With regard to a substantive motion, a substantive motion was made in this House to discuss state capture about three weeks ago. These things were discussed in that substantive motion. What other substantive motion are you looking for?

Mr G S RADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, don’t shout at me. Take your seat. I have recognised a member. I will come back to you. [Interjections.] Hon members, I recognised some on else. Take your seat. [Interjections.] I have not invited your help. Wait a minute. You will get your chance.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, with respect, I want to take issue with your ruling that this is not a substantive motion. It most certainly is a substantive motion. [Interjections.] It would be virtually impossible to discuss the removal of the President of the Republic of South Africa, if we were not allowed to discuss the reasons why we wish to remove him.

That is why we were required to substantiate it and why there was significant intervention by your office to amend wording etcetera, to make sure that it was in compliance. It would make a farce of this whole debate if it were not regarded as a substantive motion, because we could not put the charges, in which we feel the President needs to be removed, if it was any other way. I would really ask that you take advice from the Table on this matter. With respect, I believe you are wrong.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I have not … Hey, hey!! [Laughter.] You keep quiet. Please, don’t misbehave. No, no, no!

Mr M L W FILTANE: Speaker, I thought it was my turn.

Mr G S RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The hon member at the back there continues to undermine your ruling. All of us must rise on a point of order in terms of the Rule book. Can you please condemn his behaviour? [Interjections.] This is not Generations. We are not acting here. Go to Rule 161. Please, sit down. [Interjections.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Deputy Speaker, I respectfully submit that hon Shivambu may have been speaking metaphorically. Thank you. [Interjections.]

Ms M C C PILANE- MAJAKE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: In accordance with Rule 92(c), you have made a ruling and therefore, no points of order must be raised on a ruling that you have already made. That relates to the question as to whether there is a need for any substantive motions on what was mentioned by hon Shivambu. What is being said is that we have a motion, which is a substantive motion, but if there is anything additional that you need to add, that needs to be made in a form of a substantive motion. I therefore suggest that we continue. [Interjections.]

Mr M M DLAMINI: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: …

IsiZulu:

Phela asiwuvalanga umlomo ukuthi izidakwa zikhulume …

English:

… you must recognise us as well. Whatever these people are saying, our deputy president is not withdrawing anything. That is a fact. It is not going to happen. So, let us continue. Don’t waste time here.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, in the interest of the debate, I want to suggest we proceed. We will act on the rulings we have made.

Source: Unrevised Hansard