Editor’s note: Longtime WorldNetDaily correspondent Anthony C. LoBaido has written extensively about South Africa both before and after the dispensation of apartheid. In this instalment, he interviews two major players on the South African scene. The first is Member of Parliament Pieter Groenewald of the Freedom Front Plus Party, and secondly Kallie Kriel, the spokesman for Solidarity, a South African trade union with 130,000 members across South Africa in various industries. Over 80 percent of these members are Afrikaners.

As WorldNetDaily reported, the ruling Marxist African National Congress in South Africa has rapidly escalated what some call “the Zimbabwe paradigm” – moving to more aggressively seize its white citizens’ farms, possessions and futures.

FF Plus: The fact that there is a political party in Parliament like the Freedom Front Plus [FF+] that openly and unashamedly states its policy as a policy of self-determination for the Afrikaners helps a lot. Parliament is one of the best forums in South Africa to use to promote the interests of Afrikaners. It is also a good forum to expose the discrimination against the Afrikaner. To help the Afrikaner now, the FF+ must continue to use Parliament, which enables the party to put the case of the Afrikaner in the media and internationally. It must always be remembered that it was the Freedom Front who ensured section 235 in the Constitution of the RSA. Section 235 enables self-determination for the Afrikaners under certain conditions.

Solidarity: Solidarity is not a political party and does not intend becoming one. Our approach toward South African politics is that we take part in the debate from a trade union perspective in the interest of our members.

We believe that Afrikaners also need to organize themselves in strong non-governmental organizations – outside the current party political system – to protect their rights and interests. This is especially true now that the current political system only favors the majority at the cost of minorities. The current government clearly only governs in the interest of the majority. With our strong membership base, we have muscle to put pressure on government to adhere to the rights of minorities. We have had substantial successes in this regard. There is, however, still a lot that needs to be done, especially now that Afrikaners are losing their jobs on a large scale due to the government’s racially driven policies.

WND: What will happen now in relations involving the ANC and the whites?

FF Plus: At the moment, many whites are the “useful idiots” of the ANC and even more amongst white business. They believe they can influence the ANC from inside. The fact is they will never succeed and are only used by the ANC to create the impression that the ANC is not hostile toward Afrikaners.

On the question what will happen now, the answer is the ANC will increase the pressure on the whites. Racial discrimination against whites will increase. A good example is affirmative action. All over the world affirmative action is used to protect minority groups, but in South Africa it is used to protect a majority group.

The whites are in the process to lose everything they built in SA. The ANC government is no different from that of Mugabe of Zimbabwe when it comes to whites. Mugabe took the white-owned farms; the ANC uses the words “land reform.” Just yesterday, they started the process to expropriate the first white farm in SA. Mugabe nationalized the businesses in Zimbabwe; the ANC use the words “Black Economic Empowerment,” or BEE. I call BEE “Black Elite Enrichment.” Mugabe openly says that whites are not welcome in Zimbabwe; the ANC uses affirmative action to force whites to seek jobs overseas.

Solidarity: Whites feel alienated from not only the ANC, but also their country of birth. They feel like second-class citizens in their own country. Should the ANC continue on their path of not striking a balance between the rights of the majority and minorities, I foresee growing friction and alienation.

WND: What about South African President Mbeki, the United Nations and his future plans?

FF Plus: My personal opinion is that Mbeki wants to become the next secretary general of the U.N. after Kofi Anan. But I hope and believe the U.S. will be wiser. Mbeki manipulates the African Union with the wealth of South Africa. He wants to control Africa. Mbeki ‘s problem is that he is not seen as a real African who suffered the struggle.

It must be remembered that Mbeki was 17 years old when he went into so-called exile. It was a very beneficial” exile” in the UK where he had the opportunity to get academically qualified, while his fellow exiles had to fight a war in Africa. There are even ANC members who say that Mbeki doesn’t really know and understand the suffering of the ANC struggle because he didn’t experience it personally. The different ethnic conflicts in Africa cannot be solved by Mbeki. In fact, some don’t want him as the mediator for peace in Africa. Mbeki’s plans will become clearer after 2009 when he will no longer be president of South Africa.

Solidarity: One of the hurdles that Afrikaners face is that the transition of 1994 is being portrayed to the international community and international organizations as a miraculous transition from a racially driven system to a true non-racial democracy. The fact is what we have now is a new racially driven system to the detriment of Afrikaners and other minority groups. This needs to be made known to the international community.

WND: What about the crime against whites?

FF Plus: When eight farmers were murdered in Zimbabwe, there was an outcry from the world. In South Africa from 1994 more than 1,500 white farmers were murdered on their farms in more than 9,000 attacks. There is a deafening silence from the world. Maybe they think it is not true, for they believe it is impossible. The FF+ gave a video on farm murders to President Bush when he visited South Africa. We didn’t hear from his office since. The FF+ gave a report to a member of the U.N. Human Rights Commission. They couldn’t believe what they heard and said they were not aware of the farm murders. That was three years ago, and it seems they still don’t believe it.

Solidarity: This is fuelled by the continuous effort to portray whites as outsiders that undermine the interests of black people. This is, of course, not true.

WND: Is the Democratic Alliance an effective opposition in Parliament?

FF Plus: Not at all. The DA is controlled by a so-called white liberal elite. Tony Leon [the party’s leader] practices Westminster type politics. He doesn’t understand, and will never understand, that SA is not part of England but part of Africa. To think he will mobilize blacks to vote for him is mist in the sun. With the latest floor crossing, the DA lost five black members – four to the ANC. The DA is an empty tin. Big noise but no substance.

WND: What about the split within the ANC – Operation Vula (the ANC’s plan to infiltrate and destabilized the apartheid regime) types vs. the elite like Mbeki who did not fight in the struggle in southern African under apartheid but rather lived overseas.

FF Plus: It is still too early for a split. You must understand African politics. The tri-part alliance may have their differences, but when it comes to voting they unite against the whites and apartheid – although apartheid was dead 15 years ago. Yes, I say 15 years. The new difference in the ANC is not between the elite and the Operation Vula types; it is now the elite vs. labor unions. The rich elite of the ANC and the rich union bosses who are not as rich as the elite, but still rich.

Solidarity: The danger of the split in the ANC is that in the absence of clear economic and other policies that bind the alliance, the race card is being played more often to bring unity. They need a common enemy to bind the alliance, and whites and Afrikaners are being misused in this regard.

WND: What about Mbeki controling the country through his leadership of various committees after he leaves the presidency?

FF Plus: That is why Mbeki is willing to stay on as president of the ANC after the general conference in 2007 even if he is not president of South Africa. I am certain he will try to do that. It will depend on the strength of the unions in the alliance. The unions and youth are strongly opposed to Mbeki on this issue.

WND: What about Operation White Clean Up, the rumor that on the night of Nelson Mandela’s funeral, all of the whites in South Africa will be killed?

FF Plus: Is it the same one as the “Night of the Knives” when Mandela dies? If it is, we are aware of it, and whites at this moment are still armed in a way, despite new firearms laws.

WND: What are the farmers doing to protect themselves?

FF Plus: With the phasing out of the Commandos, the farmers are in the process of establishing their own security systems to ensure rural safety. The FF+ is in the process of trying to amend tax legislation to allow taxpayers to subtract money spent on security measures and security services as non-taxable.

WND: What about Afrikaner identity, particularly amongst the youth?

FF Plus: Many Afrikaner are becoming part of the poorest of the poor because of affirmative action, etc. It is sickening. …

The pressure that the Afrikaners are subjected to has led to a stronger sense of identity amongst young Afrikaners. They are generally more willing to take a stand than their fellow Afrikaners. The protest march for the protection of Afrikaans as the language of instruction at the University of Pretoria is a good example of this. On the other hand, the lack of a vision for the future has also lead to deterioration in the morals and values of some young Afrikaners.

There is still hope for the Afrikaner youth. The FF+ won the Students Council elections at Pretoria University (the largest in SA) for eight consecutive years. The students started rallies and mass action at the university to demand Afrikaans as the language of instruction. There is an awakening. Many whites have started home education because they cannot expose their children to the low standards and Marxist education at state schools. There is hope.

WND: What is your view of former South African President F.W. De Klerk and his perceived sellout of the Afrikaner nation?

FF Plus: De Klerk abused the good faith Afrikaners had in their political leaders to surrender because of his incompetence as a statesman and leader. During the negotiating, his mind was focused on the wife of one of his best friends instead of the future of South Africa.”

Solidarity: I think the ANC was underestimated during the negotiations. The National Party based their vision for the future on the goodwill of the ANC. Thereby, Afrikaners were placed at the mercy of a governing party, without the necessary protection against the new racial agenda that is currently driven by the ANC.

WND: What can freedom-loving people in the West do to help the Afrikaners?

FF Plus: “Expose the new reverse discrimination against whites in South Africa. Expose the farm murders. Expose the ANC for what they really are, namely racists who want whites out of Africa. Farm murders is already in the fifth phase of ethnic cleansing, according to U.N. international rules. … SA is definitely not a safe place, especially for women.

Solidarity: They can put pressure on their respective governments to take a stand against the new racially driven policies in South Africa.

Editor’s note: In light of the recent and first Zimbabwe-style land appropriation in South Africa, Dr. Pieter Mulder, the leader of the Freedom Front Plus Party, issued the following statement to the media:

The Freedom Front Plus would like to express a stern warning that the proposed appropriation of the family farm Leeuwspruit near Lichtenburg of Mr. Hannes Visser will have far reaching implications for the agriculture and for the general confidence in the South African economy. The South African Communist Party’s statement that it welcomes the move is the clearest indication that it is a step in the wrong direction.The immediate result of the proposed appropriation is that it could affect the total agricultural and land price structure in South Africa. It has enormous implications not only for farmers but also for all landowners. All landowners who would have still liked to negotiate about their land, have been placed in a weaker position following this announcement. The principle of willing buyer and willing seller is once again threatened by the unilateral appropriation of commercial agricultural land for restitution purposes. It is totally unacceptable to the FF Plus.

In an effort to avoid sending a Zimbabwe perception to the world, the government’s initial viewpoint was that appropriation would only be used as a last resort and only under exceptional circumstances. From the way in which Mr. Visser was treated, it appears that that viewpoint has now changed.